Transcript of First Miquel Rodriguez audio

You are about to hear the voice of Miquel Rodriguez, a United States Attorney working in Sacramento California.

Mr. Rodriguez resigned from Kenneth Starr's office of Independent Counsel in the spring of 1995, when Kenneth Starr's staff frustrated his investigation. Mr. Rodriguez resigned because he refused to join the others in covering up Foster's murder. Mr. Rodriguez revealed the truth to over a hundred people  journalists, congressmen, senators, and others, in his attempts to get the facts of the case to the public. What you will hear are actual excerpts from some of these conversations. Only the voice of Mr. Rodriguez is heard, to protect confidential sources.
In this first segment, you will hear that Vincent Foster did not die the way Kenneth Starr's predecessor, Robert Fiske, had said. The evidence does not support the conclusion of suicide.

Miquel Rodriguez:

All I know is that things did not happen the way that Fiske said that they happened. And the reports don't support what Fiske said. There's, there's really nothing is consistent with him, ah, you know, committing that kind of a violent  or that kind of violent act at all. So, it did not happen the way that Fiske said it happened.

Miquel Rodriguez:

By the way, you know why there was blood by the way. What happened is that by the time they got there when the body was in the position that it was in, there was no virtually no blood anywhere. Um, then there's, there are some conflicting reports about there being blood later on. Later the EMT sees blood, then Haut sees blood. Well the reason is very clear. They lifted the body and pulled it to the top of the ridge, top of the berm, and once they did that blood started flowing fast. And then when they took the body and put it into the body bag, which was right  in other words they  it was on a slope  they pull it up onto the slope. In fact, one of the persons who was there when the body was pulled made a joke because the body started sliding back down the hill. Then, they pulled the body up to the top of the berm. When the body is horizontal or even at the top of the berm it's not quite horizontal it's a little bit of a back-slope  and all of a sudden the blood starts gushing out, there's a lot of blood then under the body.

Miquel Rodriguez:

Exactly, but Corey's also the one who  that's when the body's in the upright  not in the upright  but in the ah, in a ah, supine position, um, on the top of the berm, already, in other words, different than, some of the  Ashford and the persons who actually lifted the body into the body bag, don't see the body in its original position. They see it in a horizontal position, um, having been moved from a vertical position. And so when it's in the horizontal position there is blood coagulating under the body before it goes into the body bag. That explains the difference in there being a lot of blood. And that's what Haut sees also. Haut asks that the body be rolled, um, when it's in the horizontal position, so when Haut sees the body, the body then a horizontal state  and yes there's going to be blood.

You see so Haut actually sees the body in two positions and people are conveniently using different phrases of Haut to justify whatever result they want. Sure Haut says on one hand there is no blood, then, he says, on the other hand, there is blood. The fact is, a number of people have said there was a small amount where the body was originally found. Later on it's moved to a horizontal position at the top of the berm where it does have some seepage under the body. And then when they put it in the body bag they see, faced in that horizontal position, there's a ten-inch or so bloodstain under the body.

Miquel Rodriguez:

And do you really know what the egress and, and access is, ah, to the Park. You have to go back to 1993. You have to go back to prior to the body being found and find out what access there was, who knew about that access, um, and how is it changed. That is the whole point, you're, again you guys really have to understand they've re-landscaped it prior to this  you know, they, they've changed gates, they've changed paths, they've changed trees, they've filled gullies, they've redefined the slope. You know the whole thing was changed when I was there. The whole area has been re-landscaped. They've even taken, they've even filled the gorge down below  they've taken that and filled it with, with ah pieces of wood and so that they've changed the path that used to be down at the bottom of the berm. You, you guys can't imagine what the aerials looked like a year before. It is  all of this is just so much nonsense. It was landscaped the sly long ago. They, they backfilled.

Miquel Rodriguez:

That was the voice of United States attorney Miquel Rodriquez.

Since July 20, 1993, when the body of Deputy White House counsel Vincent Foster was found at Fort Marcy Park, the American government and more importantly, the American press, have concealed the true facts of the death from the American people.

Miquel Rodriguez, the lead investigator of Foster's death for independent counsel Kenneth Starr, spoke to over 100 journalists.  One journalist, Steve Labaton, of the New York Times called Miquel every other day.  America’s most influential newspaper never reported the story.  Why did Steve Labaton and the New York Times fail the public trust?

Miquel Rodriguez:

Labaton still calls me every other day.  I know Labaton is a complete believer now.  There is no doubt in my mind he’s a complete believer.  I think that he’s a believer and he knows, I spent about five hours with him.

To make it appear that Foster was killed with a gun he owned, Kenneth Starr's staff reported the family had brought guns to Washington, D.C. Brett Kavanaugh, a co-author of Starr's Report wrote

"Mrs. Lisa Foster said that she recalls two guns in a bedroom closet in Washington, one of which was missing when she looked in the closet after Mr. Foster's death, and that the missing gun was found at the scene."

Yet there was no evidence the family owned two guns.

Miquel Rodriguez:

There was no evidence of there being two guns either, that there was evidence of two guns being brought up, no evidence at all.

When asked about Robert Fiske’s report about the gun ownership, Rodriguez said Fiske contradicted Mrs. Foster, who said that the family did not own the gun found at the scene.  Rodriguez said Fiske's lies, were the worst of all.

Miquel Rodriguez:

There is no evidence that that gun was ever found to have ever been part of the family.  It contradicts an earlier statement by Lisa [Foster] that it wasn’t the gun.  They’re all lying because they’re all afraid they are going to be targets.  Fiske is the worst among them all.

Narrator:

During his effort to investigate Foster’s murder, Rodriguez discovered photographs were stolen, destroyed or withheld to conceal the truth.   In the first audio Rodriguez explained that Foster's body had been moved.  The missing photographs would prove the perpetrators recreated the crime scene.  Allan Favish, a California attorney, has a case pending before the U.S. Supreme court regarding the release of the crime scene photographs.  This important Freedom of Information Act lawsuit could release the incriminating photographs. The American press is silent. 

Miquel Rodriguez:

To be honest with you I think that ah, I think that the photographs that were taken for several people don’t exist any longer or they have never been turned over to reviewing officials.  At least seven were missing and that was established at one point.  At least five that were taken by one particular person are gone, exist in addition to the thirteen.  In other words, I had a person look at 13 photographs and that person told me,  “mine are not here.”  That person’s photographs are missing, at least that much. 

Brett Kavanaugh, Starr's associate, gave a good deal of credit to the pathology panel of experts that worked for Starr's predecessor Robert Fiske.  We now learn that these so-called "experts" did not examine the original crime scene photographs.  Dr. Donald Ray, Dr. Charles Hirsch, Dr. Charles Stahl, and Dr. James L. Luke viewed only third and fourth generation copies of photographs.  Starr's former lead investigator Miquel Rodriguez called it, "ridiculous."

Miquel Rodriguez:

            Even the photographs that I had developed that I really don’t want to discuss right now.  Even that photograph we weren’t supposed to see in my opinion.  You know because I had to go through such great lengths to get it and I had to do it myself.  That was a Polaroid that was a picture of a picture of a picture there were three layers.  It was a third generation that I was looking at. 
 

The first, the whole first team of forensic scientists looked at the third generation photographs, absolutely ridiculous. 
 

I don’t feel comfortable saying anything more right now.   I thought that was what was particularly interesting also was that the finding that we discovered that there were pictures of pictures of pictures, third generation photographs, that were used in the Fiske report. 

Starr’s office used the same photos as his predecessor Fiske.  Brett Kavanaugh wrote that the conclusion of suicide was based on photographs, "gathered during the prior investigation."

Starr's associate independent counsel Brett Kavanaugh wrote, "The 35-millimeter photographs were underexposed: thus, the POLAROIDS were of greater investigative utility."

Why would Kavanaugh write that third generation POLAROIDS were of greater value?  Kavanaugh knew the 35-millimeter photos were not underexposed, and he had access to all first generation photos.  According to Rodriguez, those original POLAROIDS and 35-millimeter photos were "very interesting stuff".

Miquel Rodriguez:

I found the first generation of Polaroid’s.   I also had the first generation negative of a 35 millimeters, very interesting stuff.

Narrator:

Miquel Rodriguez searched and found the original photographs.  From those pictures he discovered that Foster had been moved to recreate the crime scene.  According to Rodriguez, Park Police Officer John Rolla's report was not consistent with his own statements. Rodriguez said Officer John Rolla was "incredible".

Miquel Rodriguez:

I found Rolla’s, the notes that he made at the scene, completely incredible and inconsistent with prior statements both made by him and accounts of others.  I think he is completely incredible.

Narrator:

During the grand jury process, it is obvious Rodriguez learned important facts about people present at the crime scene. He does not reveal what was said during the proceedings.  A slip of the tongue reveals the word "special" as in Special Agents, being present at the crime scene.  The only officials at the crime scene, according to the media were; U.S. Park Police, Fairfax County rescue, and the Medical Examiner.

Miquel Rodriguez:

God! I’m just brimming over, I’m bubbling over.  And I’m angry that I cannot respond.  I am angry myself.  Because there is much to be said.  Let me suggest to you, investigate, be investigative reporters.  Investigate these people too.  What background did they have, wouldn’t it be surprising if, these people were special liaison in a prior life to, in some capacity.  And where there any other supervisor people out there.  And, and what were the backgrounds of some of those police that were out there.  There’s a whole host of fertile ground out there.  And have you really identified all the main players out there at the park police?

Narrator:

If there were truly honest investigative journalists they would have discovered what Miquel Rodriguez learned in the grand jury.  Who were those people at Fort Marcy Park that night?  Who do investigative journalists like, Mike Wallace, Ted Koppel, Michael Isikoff, and Bob Woodward really serve?

Miguel Rodriguez tells us that a grand jury can be manipulated and undermined.

Miquel Rodriguez:

The usefulness of the jury and the investigative tools available, if a prosecutor is not allowed to exercise the tools that are available to the prosecutor to get through and then even the best of tools can be undermined. Even the best of tools can be manipulated, even testimony.   If someone is given advance notice or allowed to prepare or allowed to review documents or something in advance, you see, how that can change the nature of the grand jury.  There is no element of surprise, you are not going to catch people in lies.

Patrick Knowlton, producer of this audio, testified before the Whitewater grand jury.  Knowlton has first hand knowledge of grand jury witness intimidation and abuse at the hands of people like Ken Starr's associates Brett Kavanaugh and John Bates.

Rodriguez tells us that Starr used many of the same investigators that were responsible for the Fiske investigation -- the same FBI agents.
Associate counsel Mark Stein and Deputy Independent [Counsel] Roderick Lankler, whose names appear on the cover of Fiske's Report, were also retained by Starr.  Rodriguez relates how Stein and Lankler reacted when he suggested that different FBI agents be used to reinvestigate Foster's death.

Miquel Rodriguez:

Well, I couldn’t believe it, and these people Mark Stein and what was that guy’s name, ah from New York, it starts with an “L”, Lankler.  My God, I couldn’t, they were, they had the nerve to look at me straight in the eye, and ah, when I said, “Look, I think it might be a good idea to use different FBI agents.”  They went through the roof! They went absolutely nuts!  They had everything the way they wanted it.  It was a complete sham job.  You know, again, I just think it is a whitewash.  I know these people and I know what they are trying to do.  I know where they want to go.  Where they want to go is the path of least resistance.  If the media allows these people to go down that path of least resistance, then they will give all the pomp to having an open mind and then close the door.  It’s very clear to me what Starr wants to do is lay the foundation for a, a open minded approach and they follow the path of least resistance.  And he wants to close it out he wants to close that Washington office immediately.

As Miquel Rodriguez stated, “these people had everything the way they wanted it.”  Kenneth Starr and his associates knew that they could count on the American press to conceal the truth. 

While the cover-up of Foster’s murder continues those who participated are rewarded.  For example, Starr’s former associate John Bates is currently a Federal judge, appointed by George W. Bush and is on the bench in Washington, D.C.  Another Starr associate Brett Kavanaugh, currently a White House counsel in the Bush Administration, has been nominated by President Bush to the United States Court of Appeals in Washington, D.C.

According to the Washington Post, “Democrats and liberal interest groups have expressed opposition to the nomination of White House Aide Brett Kavanaugh.”  The cover-up of a murder is not a Democrat or a Republican issue, justice is the concern of all Americans.

Narrator

This is the third in a series of audio presentations produced by Whitewater grand jury witness Patrick Knowlton and his lawyer John H. Clarke.  You will hear Mr. Knowlton on this audio.

You will also hear the voice of Assistant United States Attorney Miquel Rodriguez, and the voice of Associate White House Counsel Brett Kavanaugh.  Both Kavanaugh and Rodriguez served as Associate Independent Counsel under Kenneth Starr.  Starr chose Kavanaugh to replace Rodriguez. 

In 1994 and 1995, Miquel Rodriquez was the lead prosecutor investigating Mr. Foster’s death.   Rodriquez thoroughly reviewed all of the federal records in the Foster case.  Despite Ken Starr’s and the FBI’s attempts to hide the first generation crime scene photographs from him, Rodriguez discovered the original photographs.

Miquel Rodriguez is the leading government authority on the evidence.  He witnessed criminal activity in the Office of Independent Counsel.

Miquel Rodriguez

Miquel Rodriguez, U.S. Attorney’s Office.  It is one thing to have read five, ten to twenty, you know, ten thousand pages worth of documents and to know what I know.  I mean facts are a strange thing because they can’t be denied.
 

And, you know, and like, for example the 35-millimeters, the hand is in a different  position than the Polaroids and like if you look at some of the weeds, little weeds, fibers coming up through his hand they are different on photographs, different ah, different photographs indicate different positions based on the vegetation.

From the photographic evidence, Rodriguez knew the perpetrators staged the crime scene. 

The press publicized the search of Fort Marcy Park for the fatal bullet to give the public the impression Starr was doing a thorough investigation.  The bullet was never found because it remained in Foster’s head.  Rodriguez discovered that the FBI, with the assistance of Doctor James Beyer, had destroyed the evidence that showed the bullet remained in Foster’s brain.  People asked Rodriguez if exhuming Foster’s body for an X-ray could reveal the bullet trajectory. 

Miquel Rodriguez

They certainly won’t find a brain there.  We sure don’t have any way to show what the track of the bullet was, if in fact a bullet came from inside the mouth.

Narrator

The United States Court of Appeals appointed Starr as Independent Counsel.  Starr appointed Rodriquez to investigate Foster’s death.  Rodriguez soon discovered he was not in control of the investigation, but rather the FBI was, along with Justice Department prosecutors who had controlled the outcome of the Fiske Report.  The result of the probe, Rodriquez learned, was predetermined.

Miquel Rodriguez:

These people don’t know what they’re doing.  They don’t know what the FBI is doing.  The FBI comes in and says we’re going to do this, you want to have someone monitor us you are welcome to it.  I do this all the time.  You know, a simple investigation, you know, the FBI comes in, shows its badges and they do whatever they want.

The public would expect an investigation to examine telephone records of calls made to and from Vincent Foster around the time of his death.  Kavanaugh wrote in the Starr Report that phone records indicated a call was placed from the White House residence at exactly 10:06 p.m. on the night of Foster’s death.   In the same paragraph Kavanaugh also wrote, “Complete records for such calls are not available.”

Rodriguez reveals that the Office of Independent Counsel never subpoenaed any White House telephone records of calls from anyone including Vincent Foster. 

Miquel Rodriguez:

Telephone records are not a window into anything.  Because the telephone records are only going to be as good as what the FBI asks for.  Whatever else I am saying is this, okay, there is no way, based on what I knew was subpoenaed, to confirm or deny that somebody made any particular telephone calls at any particular time and that includes Vince Foster.

Narrator

Originating in England and frequently referred to as the people’s panel, the grand jury was valued as a kind of people’s watchdog.  In 1743, it twice refused to indict newspaper publisher John Peter Zenger for criminal libel for criticizing the colonial governor.  A pre-Constitutional institution, and still a people’s panel, it is not captive or regulated to any branch by the Constitution.  The grand jury is meant to be a vital check and balance to protect the people from government abuse. 

After his departure, Miquel Rodriguez encouraged journalists to write articles to educate the public and the grand jurors about their powers.  He realized that the common person was the last bastion of hope.

Miquel Rodriguez

Let me interject one thought, the, really the only fertile ground here for getting a, getting a, ah, full accounting done and I mean even, even beyond what Congress is capable of doing is to target the grand jury.  The, everyone else is going to be politically motivated.  I have met this grand jury.  I know how pissed they are. And I know how confused they are.  And I know how dissatisfied they are.  And attempts to empower them, to tell them that they can demand more, will go a long way.  They remain your friend, they remain citizens who are not interested in the political process, who don’t know it, don’t care about it.  They want to know what happened because they are curious, interested people.  And, um, they, they don’t know what kind of power they have.  Empowering the grand jury, letting them know what they can demand, what they should be wary of, um, what their independent subpoena powers are, um, whether they have the authority to ask questions on their own in the grand jury, ah to take charge of this, as the representatives of the public, do you know what I am saying?  In other words, the real bastion of hope out there is the common person, not the politics of the Congress, not the politics of an Independent Counsel.  The real check and balance here is um, is the grand jury, the common person, selected at random.  And they need to pound their fists.  They are capable of doing it.  You know they are the best you’ve got.

 

They read the Post.  When I used to go into the grand jury, I’d see them reading the Post and the Times on these articles.  You know when I was in the paper a lot they were trying to get me to talk about them, the articles.  They follow all of it very carefully.  You target them and they are going to feel empowered.  That is going to piss Starr and people like Tuohey off more than anything else.

 

Miquel Rodriguez

That Pollock article was nonsense.  There is so much manipulation going on in terms of what these people are trying to make people believe.  It’s pernicious, it is harmful.

 

This is all spin being put out by certain people to manipulate, not only the readership but it, you people have no idea how you affect, ah, ah, an investigation.  You know, if I walk into the grand jury on the same day that some Post article said that Starr has reached an opposite conclusion than what I am doing, where is that person getting that information?  Why are they timing, why are they timing it so perfectly to, to undermine what I am doing and, the attitudes.  It is very, very disturbing, from that aspect on how powerful this all is.



 

Miquel Rodriguez

It is unfortunate because there are so many people, who, you know have tried to stand up for what they believe was their integrity and truth.  And you know, a whole lot of us are just getting the shit kicked out of us.

 

One thing that I met fierce opposition to, in the trenches, inside the Independent Counsel was this, I was really upset that, the, um, the witnesses who had no incentive to lie, this is the way I phrased it, why is the FBI harassing and re-interviewing witnesses who have no incentive to lie and yet we are treating with rubber gloves persons who do have an incentive to lie, and or at least not be candid.  And who in fact, have made misstatements involving questionable...

 

What does this guy Knowlton have to gain in saying something that he said from the outset and continues to say today?  And he should take an incredulous, and others should take an incredulous attitude, like a, why are you questioning me?  And even in the grand jury, people can respond this way, they just don’t know it, why are you pushing my? why are you following me? Why are you, and you know, if Knowlton wants to make a statement, he is certainly welcome, you know, there is no problem is asking why am I being followed?  Why am I, why was I being harassed in the grand jury?  Knowlton should find comfort in the fact that he is not alone.  He needs to know that.  The guy is a damn hero.

 

What they are trying to do is discredit him by making him out to be, um you know a homosexual cruising at a park.  The reality is we had this fight a year ago, and I was literally irate with Tuohey and the FBI agents who were snickering and laughing with Brett about this.  And I was just livid!  And I said I don’t care if they were there @#&*ing their favorite tree I said!  The fact of the matter is if they know what they saw that does not discount them, as for having the ability to recall what they saw with there own eyes!  And I don’t care again, if they were #@*%ing their favorite tree.  And the FBI finds it particularly funny.

 

There is a pattern in the treatment of all of the witnesses.  It is absolutely crystal clear and you can only see it when you have gone through the ten thousand, fifteen thousand documents.  And when you do so, you will see that, that there is a pattern of basically harassing and misstating people who are sort of the innocent bystanders, including the EMTs [Emergency Medical Technicians] and the people who are law enforcement and FBI and White House are being interviewed once and accepted as being true.  The EMTs are outstanding people, all outstanding people.  They really are.

 

No, actually it was upon review of all of the documents in this case, my observation and statements that I indicated to, to Tuohey and Starr was that witnesses who had no incentive to lie were being unduly, questioned, (pause) inappropriately.  Persons with no incentive to lie were being inappropriately treated.  I think I could stand by that.  You know, that was something that I believed, I believed it from the outset.  You know, people like the Park Police were never asked tough questions.  I tried to ask them tough questions and they beat the hell out of me.  It was just bass ackwards. 

 

Miquel Rodriguez

Who asked him if he touched his genitals?  (Kavanaugh)

How could Brett stoop that low?  I can’t believe Brett did that.

 

Patrick Knowlton

Prior to going to the grand jury I was harassed and intimidated on the streets of Washington.  And during that time, a three-day period, my attorney John Clarke repeatedly called the FBI and the OICs office.  They never responded to give me any protection or any help.  It wasn’t until the following Monday that Russell Bransford showed up at my door and he interviewed me regarding the harassment.  All the time I was telling him the story, of what took place, he sat there and smiled at me.   And when I asked him at one point if I could trust him?  He leaned over into my face and said, “Mr. Knowlton that is a good question, I don’t know.”

 

Well I was looking forward to going to the grand jury and telling them my story about my harassment and at that time, I did not realize that the FBI and the OIC were behind it.   

 

I remember when I went to the grand jury.  And towards the end of this 2 ½ hour interview, I was asked by Brett Kavanaugh to step outside of the grand jury room so the grand jurors could ask questions.  When I re-entered the room, Kavanaugh first asked me if I was sure that someone else didn’t see me in the park?  And I replied that I hoped that someone else had seen me in the park.  Then, he sarcastically asked me whether I came forward to the authorities because I was a good citizen or a good Samaritan? 

 

Then, John Bates who was seated behind me leaned forward and passed a note to Brett Kavanaugh, from which Kavanaugh read the following questions,

He said, “Mr. Knowlton did the man in the park talk to you?” And I replied, “no.”

He asked me, “Did the man in the park pass you a note?”  And I replied, “no.”

He said, “Did the man approach you?” And I replied, “no.” 

“Did the man in the park point a gun at you?” I replied, “no.”

And lastly Kavanaugh asked me, “Did the man in the park touch your genitals?” 

 

I looked at him and I was in shock.  I was dumbfounded.  I couldn’t believe he asked me such a question.  Of course, I replied, “no.”

 

As I left the grand jury I was puzzled why the grand jurors would ask such questions?  And as soon as I saw my attorney, John Clarke,  I repeated verbatim the last questions I was asked.  Now we know those questions, were designed by John Bates and Brett Kavanaugh.  They wanted to discredit me, and my testimony.

 

Bates and Kavanaugh knew Foster’s car, that gray car, was not in the parking lot when Foster was dead.  They also knew that all of the other witnesses and I all saw the brown car in the small parking lot.   No one in that park saw that Foster’s gray car.

 

The press and the government claim that Vincent Foster drove to the park and shot himself.  The fact is, Foster did not drive to the park.  He did not commit suicide.

 

Brett Kavanaugh

Well I guess some of it depends on whether, whether ah, we know there was a car there.  The question is whether there is evidence, um, other then that no one saw it being moved out, and ah, you know, that it had Arkansas plates, ah, ah, um, you know, I’d have to go back to the Report again and give you a full answer on that, but, I mean, I guess, I guess that is an unanswerable question.

 

.

Brett Kavanaugh

I am just going to stand by the Report.  It does point out what C2 [Patrick Knowlton] saw in the park, it doesn’t ignore the car that he saw.

 

I’ll have to look at it but I know C2 [Patrick Knowlton] what he saw, that’s described.  Um hum, Isn’t the color described by C2 [Patrick Knowlton] that’s, that’s indicated I believe which is not the same color, brown, rust colored, I mean it’s all about the inferences, obviously, ah you know, obviously one inference is the car he saw is the same car, another inference is that it’s not.

 

Brett Kavanaugh

What, what you don’t like, and I understand this, so I’m not going to get defensive or offensive, is that the ah, you know,  you think those facts lead to a certain conclusion, and the Report suggests that those facts do not necessarily lead to any conclusion other than, you know, inconsistent with the ultimate, ah findings, so that is just a debate about what inferences you would take from the facts, that are there, compared to the inferences taken by the, um, Report, which is fine.  People disagree about that all the time, I mean the Starr Report seems definitive and, not definitive you wouldn’t agree.

 

But at least in discussing the physical evidence and why it’s unlikely what was in the, ah, scene in the parking lot contradicts any of that.  I think that’s the actual phrasing that’s used.  But I don’t think there was anything ignored, I’ll go back and look at that though.

 

Brett Kavanaugh

That, that’s the question ah, that there was questions about whether people were mis-describing colors or something like that, now that’s one inference, another inference is that there was another car and that’s just ah, and then there’s a third inference that, I suppose which is that his car, the gray car wasn’t there and they switched the cars after the [fire] engine arrived.  That’s an inference.

 

Brett Kavanaugh

Well at least we you know, at least you know, the Report, look the Report was trying to be honest about a few things, and ah, that, that, the people had complained about with the Fiske Report, and one of them was the fact that there were these cars and people saw different cars and different people.

 

What about the people, I mean this gets to a problem, what about the people who seemed clearly to see ah, Foster’s car, and described it as brown.  So, people were screwed up on the colors, period.

 

Brett Kavanaugh

What about the people, I mean this gets to a problem.   What about the people who seemed clearly to see ah, Foster’s car, and described it as brown. 

 

Brett Kavanaugh

So, people were screwed up on the colors, period.

 

Brett Kavanaugh

Well it all comes down to that brown car issue, right?   Ah, all the police and medical personnel that were in the park also described it as brown.



 

Brett Kavanaugh

Ah, all the police and medical personnel that were in the park also described it as brown.

 

Patrick Knowlton

I am Patrick Knowlton producer of these audios.  We have shown that our government and our press have been caught in a provable lie.  When our leaders and our press are covering-up murder, the safety and well-being of the American people are threatened.

 

If our press and the government will lie to us about the murder of a White House official we should ask what else are they lying to us about?

 

The truth is the American people cannot trust their government and press to tell them the truth about anything.





 

Senator Orrin Hatch:

 

Accordingly, I want to be clear on one point, there is absolutely no credible evidence to contradict the Fiske Report’s conclusion that Vincent Foster took his own life, and it happened at Fort Marcy Park.  There is no credible evidence to the contrary.  I suspect conspiracy theorists will always differ with this conclusion.

Both EMTs that responded to the park.  Both observed trauma to the neck.  I saw pictures that clearly indicate to me that there is trauma on the neck.  I believe it’s a puncture wound on the neck.

There is really nothing that is consistent with him committing that kind of violent act at all.

The public has been told by the media that the Senate Banking Committee investigated the death of Vincent Foster.  Compare the remarks of committee members with those we have heard from Miquel Rodriguez.  First is California Senator Barbara Boxer:

Barbara Boxer:

 

The first issue is the Vince Foster death.  Independent Counsel states quote, “the overwhelming evidence compels the conclusion that Vincent Foster committed suicide.  There is no evidence that issues related to Whitewater played any part in his suicide.” Now you’ve heard that several times, but that’s the crux of the matter.

Narrator:

Republican Senator Bob Bennett:

Bob Bennett:

I will be happy to stipulate that Vince Foster committed suicide.  There was a time when the rumors that were in the press lead me to believe there was some credence to an additional theory.  I find no possible justification for that now and I am one senator who is willing to say that this hearing should not be about whether or not Vince Foster committed suicide.  He committed suicide, I’ll so stipulate.

All I know is that things did not happen the way Fiske said that they happened, and the reports don’t support what Fiske said.

Narrator:
Senior Republican Senator Pete Domenici said the Republicans would not challenge the Fiske Report.
 

Senator Pete Domenici:

With reference to his death I don’t think anyone on our side is challenging the suicide. So perhaps we can get rid of that rather quickly.



 

Miquel Rodriguez:

It is in many Republicans’ interest to not rock the boat, because what we are talking about is ultimate power.

 

Senator Campbell:

These hearings begin with the investigation of Vincent Foster’s suicide and that should turn the stomach of any caring American.  I really believe we should drop that whole issue.  The Park Police, the FBI, the Medical Examiner, the Independent Counsel they are all professionals and they did their job and concluded that Vince Foster did indeed commit suicide.



 

Miquel Rodriguez:

And this is all so much fluff and a look-good job.  This is all so much nonsense.  I knew the result before the investigation began.

 

This panel is a banking committee, not a medical board of inquiry.  We’re senators not coroners.  There are some legitimate questions that ought to be examined but probing in a macabre way into the family tragedy, that all that have looked at it have concluded was tragically a suicide and nothing more.  I hope we can move through very quickly and get to the issues that are more important in my view.



 

Miquel Rodriguez:

They had the nerve to look at me straight in the eye, and ah, when I said, “Look, I think it might be a good idea to use different FBI agents.”  They went through the roof! They went absolutely nuts!  They had everything the way they wanted it.  It was a complete sham job.  You know, again, I just think it is a whitewash.  I know these people and I know what they are trying to do.  I know where they want to go.  Where they want to go is the path of least resistence.

 

Carol Moseley-Braun:

Mr. Chariman I would like to associate myself with the remarks of Senators Bennett and Boxer regarding the Vincent Foster issue.  We are not conducting an investigation into a suicide.

 

Senator John Kerry:

The FBI, the Park Police, the Foster family and the Special Counsel have all concluded that Vince Foster tragically took his own life.  The medical examiner, the FBI laboratory, the DNA analysis on the gun, the medical and forensic experts all agree yet somehow here is the United States Senate giving credence to the most insulting, degrading, lurid, and lunatic theories that people could invent.



 

Miquel Rodriguez:

Very few people need to know anything about anything really.  All people need to know is what there job is, not why, be a good soldier, carry out the orders.



 

It is my understanding, as others have said, and people have testified like Doctor Hirsch, um, that it was a suicide and I have no reason to question that.  And I was hoping that we can close this forever.



 

Miquel Rodriguez:

Even the Park Police, even the Park Police and the person who first saw the body, ah, saw different things.  But there was a point in time where the particular gun that he described arrived and something before that was either not observed or not completely identified. 



 

Peter Jennings:

Another story about violence, in Washington today the White House is accusing Republicans of spreading irresponsible and unsubstantiated rumors about the Whitewater affair.  In particular a rumor circulating yesterday insinuating foul play in the death of Vince Foster, the White House Counsel, who police have said committed suicide last summer.  We have been investigating to see if there is any truth to the rumors.  Here is ABC’s Jim Wooten:

 

Jim Wooten:

The common thread is that Foster was murdered someplace else, that his body was moved to this park above the Potomac where it was found.  And feeding all this speculation, is more speculation.  For instance, the rumor that there are no photographs of the scene.   There are.  ABC News has seen a complete set, including this one showing Foster’s hand, his thumb caught in the trigger guard.  Some rumors insist there was little or no blood on or around Foster’s body.  The grim and graphic photographs of the scene prove that is not true either.  The White House itself may have fueled some of the rumors with its own incompetence in the hours after Foster’s death.  But there is little reason now to doubt that for whatever reason he may have had, the President’s boyhood friend drove himself across the Potomac one afternoon last July and tragically took his own life.  Jim Wooten ABC News Washington.



 

Miquel Rodriguez:

The photographs that were taken for several people don’t exist any longer or they have never been turned over to reviewing officials.  I had a person look at thirteen photographs and that person told me mine are not here.  So that person’s photographs are missing.

At the time they got there, and the body was in the position that it was in, there was virtually no blood anywhere. 

Then there are some conflicting reports of there being blood later on.  Later the EMT sees blood, then Haut sees blood.  Well the reason is very clear.  They lifted the body and pulled it to the top of the ridge, to top of the berm, and once they did that blood started flowing fast.



 

Let me just put a slightly different turn on the facts as you have recounted them.  I am familiar with the gentleman of  whom you speak.  I am familiar with the charges.  The only difference with the version I have heard and the version you have recounted is that I have heard is that he is described as a guy who wanted to go off on his own, who did indeed want to follow some leads that his superiors did not want him to follow, because they wanted to follow a team approach there.  But that in and of itself, and I don’t think even Mr. Rodriguez, would take the position that he had evidence, of Vince Foster having been killed.



 

Miquel Rodriguez:

Well I wrote that to Starr back in January of this year and it was squelched by Tuohey, he could yell louder than I could.  He was a team player.  I know.  My office was searched by him.

 

There is really nothing that is consistent with him, ah, you know, committing that kind of a violent  or that kind of violent act at all. 

 

Let me take for the moment what you have said, with a grain of salt.  But let’s assume for the sake of argument that it were true.  One would then have to also conclude that everyone who subsequently has investigated this case, now I’m not now talking about reporters, I’m talking about the FBI, I’m talking about the Senate Banking Committee, I’m talking about the Park Service itself, all those who have investigated it, and all those who have subsequently read all of the reports, would have to be in collusion, say for whatever reason, I’m wondering what reason you might think, ah would bring Democrats and Republicans, critics and friends of the Clinton administration, to, to conspire to come to that conclusion.

 

Miquel Rodriguez:

You don't need a lot of people to know what's going on.  In fact, you don't need many at all.  Everyone makes a very big mistake when they believe that a lot of people are necessary to orchestrate some kind of  some result here.  Very few people need to know anything about anything really.  When you write a report all you have to do is make sure it is consistent with, the most innocuous thing is to make sure it is consistent with the result that you ultimately want to get, which is to not embarrass your other colleagues who have made their conclusion already.



 

Ted Koppel:

The impression that somehow if there was a great, dramatic, indeed shattering story like the one just mentioned, that those of us in the media have anything to gain, I’m talking now about the mass media, by not broadcasting it.  You give me the evidence, I’ll be delighted to broadcast it.  I have no particular problem with where the ideology of a story comes from, as long as I can prove it to be true.  Okay?

 

Miquel Rodriguez:

I have talked to a number of people from Time Magazine, Newsweek, you know, Nightline, there have been well over a hundred.  And this matter is so sealed tight the editors won’t allow it to go to press.  The accepted media here has always had, ah, a certain take on all of this.  And there's been story lines from the get-go.       



 

Ted Koppel:

I do five programs a week on Nightline.   For example, turning out 2 ½ hours of broadcasting every week means that on average we will probably spend, I’m talking about different members of our staff, perhaps, five or six days on a program.  Some programs we may spend five or six hours on.  If news breaks, a major news story breaks at seven o’clock in the evening or at eight o’clock in the evening, we’ll have it on Nightline at eleven-thirty at night, three hours later.  There is no question in my mind, and it has always been so, that the fringe media, on the left and on the right, the smaller organizations, the ones that can and do in fact, focus an enormous amount of attention, on a particular story, sometimes spending many months, even years on a story, that it is often the fringe media that will develop a story that is ultimately picked up by the mass media.  If you are looking to the mass media to do the real investigative journalism, if you’re looking for Nightline to do major investigative stories, you’re looking in the wrong direction.  We don’t have the facilities we don’t have the time.  I have a staff of 50 people and we do 2 ½ hours of broadcasting a week.



 

Mike Wallace:

What really happened to Vince Foster?  Did President Clinton’s boyhood friend kill himself or was he murdered?  Foster’s body was found outside Washington more than two years ago, but still we read stories about his death almost every day.  And just as often viewers call or write asking us to investigate.  So we have taken a look at what really happened to him.

 

But the evidence does not indicate that to any of the investigators, all of whom concluded that the body could not have been moved.

 

Dr. Donald Haut you are the Fairfax County Medical Examiner?

 

Dr. Haut:

Yes I am.

 

Mike Wallace:

Was there a suspicious lack of blood at the scene?

 

Dr. Haut:

Absolutely not.

 

Mike Wallace:

Did you tell a reporter by the name of Christopher Ruddy that there was an unusual lack of blood?

 

Dr. Haut:

No.

 

Mike Wallace:

Christopher Ruddy says that you changed your story.

 

Dr. Haut:

No. That’s not true.

 

Miquel Rodriguez:

So Haut actually sees the body in two positions and people are conveniently using different phrases of Haut to justify whatever result they want.  Sure Haut says on one hand there is no blood, but, he says, on the other hand, there is blood.  The fact is, a number of people have said there was a small amount where the body was originally found.  Later on it's moved to a horizontal position at the top of the berm, it does have some seepage under the body.  So when Haut sees the body it is in a horizontal state, so yes there is going to be blood.  Haut actually sees the body in two positions.





 

Tim Russert:

The Fiske investigation, a former Republican U.S. attorney, concluded the death was a suicide. If Ken Starr, a man who accepted the position as Dean of the Pepperdine Law School, School of Public Policy, if he concludes, if he concludes, that Vincent Foster’s death was a suicide, will you then accept that?



 

Tim Russert:

And if there is a situation where an individual is being harassed or is placed in harm in any way, shape, or form, be it Waco, Ruby Ridge, wherever the case may lead us we’ll be there covering it.

 

Miquel Rodriguez:

It was the Independent counsel themselves and the FBI that beat me back, in fact threatened me.  They told me to back off and back down.  I have been communicated with again and told to be careful where I tread.  I can tell you this it’s not just my career and reputation, but it also has to do wih my personal health and my family.



 

Newt Gingrich:

I think we are entitled to a full airing and I think you are going to find that Congressional hearings are going to raise those questions.  I was very struck by an article I think it was in the Investors Business Daily, ran a very long article that I thought was stunning, raising question after question about Foster and what happened there.  And I have asked several of our Congressional chairmen of our committees to look into that and I think you will be seeing some hearings on these topics because when you look at them there is just too much there to not try to find out what really happened.



 

Representative Dan Burton:

You know me, if I tell you something it is going to be the straight scoop or I won’t tell it to you.  I am not going to violate your trust.  I promise.

 

Well let me just say I had an interview with Novak.  And anytime I am talking to the media, even my good friend Bob Novak, I am not going to say that I am going to re-open any investigation, the Travel Office, the FBI, Vince Foster or anything.  Now that doesn’t mean that I am not going to look into things that I think are relevant or important, and I am going to do that.

 

Oh no, what I said was that unless I have additional information that would lead me to believe that we ought to re-open any of the investigations then I am not going to do anything.  Now that doesn’t mean that, see I’m going to be looking into all of this to find out if there is additional information.  But publicly I am not going to re-open the investigation unless I get something.  There is no need to do it.  And I am going through it. And if that, that, that, that, that, would shed new light on it, of course I am going to explore it.

 

Listen to me.  I, I, I, I am going to look into every aspect of every one of these investigations.  I am going to go through all the files that Clinger had.  I am going to go through my files.  I’ve got a deposition of the man who found his body.  But I am not going to divulge how I am going to conduct any of this until the proper time.  And what I need is something to hang my hat on that will show that there is additional information or evidence.

 

Now you got to do that in a very careful way.  Otherwise the media is going to have a field day.  They are expecting me to do that.  They expect me to right off the bat to start beating on the Foster issue.  And, and I can’t do that right off the bat.  Just give me a little bit of time to go through this.

 

I do what I say I am going to do and if you don’t trust me.  If you don’t want to give me information then don’t do it.

 

I am just telling you as chairman of this committee I got three investigations, right now.  I got Travel Office, I got FBI and now I got these illegal contributions.  And I have got to deal with those. 

 

Now Foster, I told you and I still believe this.  I said it on the record to the New York Times or Washington Post I can’t remember which one.  I said I don’t recant anything I said about Foster.  I believe his body was moved.  I believe that Report was in error.  I believe what the confidential witness said. 

 

But I have got to do this at the right time.  And I don’t think starting right off the bat doing this would be the right thing to do because they would, they would try to blow that up and make it look like I was not a credible chairman.  So what I’ve got to do is deal with the things that are right on my plate which are Travel Office, Filegate Office, er File Office, er FBI Files, and this this issue right now.

 

And Foster you may rest assured.  I am going to look at all the documents I possibly can.  I’m going to look at those pictures.  I am going to look into that.  This is not the time to be beating on that drum until we’re ready.

 

Well, then don’t believe me.



 

Miquel Rodriguez: